Who discovered the United States?

[DodgeFB]

Originally Posted by deanhills

I just checked up what "America" means, and then discovered for the first time that it was named after a cartographer, Amerigo Vespucci:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerigo_Vespucci

Interesting, very interesting.

[soupnazi630]

Originally Posted by DodgeFB

Interesting, very interesting.

Actually no history book claims Columbus discovered the United States.

The history is that he discovered the New World which includes America ( the land mass not the nation ). The United States came over a couple of centuries later.

There is no doubt Columbus discovered the New World ( new for europeans in general ). But he was not the first of course. In a way this is a semantic argument because it requires an agreed upon definition of " Discovered".

If I read a book for the first time am I discovering what is in the book? Yes.
But am I the first one to discover it? Probably not.

Man people came here and left or maybe even settled here way before Columbus. As this thread shows the Vikings came here and established colonies which apparently did not work out well. The Arab Moors of North Africa have maps and charts of North America which predate Columbus. They knew of this place but did not bother exploiting it having internal problem of their own. The Chinese made a landing on the West coast decades before Columbus and they easily had the ability to colonize the New World BEFORE the Europeans. But then they ruined their chances when they had a new emporer who ordered his navy burned. He was obsessed with religion and believed that chain should look inward not outward. When the Irish heard of Columbus " discovery " they scratched their heads and wondered what people meant. This is because the Irish were coming to north America for many years as they fished the Atlantic. They actually called it greater ireland. There is some limited evidence that the Romans and even Phoenicians came here in ancient time. One thing is certain such ancient people had the ability and knowledge to make the trip , they simply had problems of their own and no motive to settle here.

However at the time of Columbus the average European did not know about the American continents. In addition the timing was right because Europeans WANTED new land. People were tired of living as serfs under aristocrats who taxed the hell out of you and made it illegal to hunt a deer to feed your family. Not to mention wars plagues etc which had made life miserable in europe. When Columbus returned to Spain the word spread rapidly and the emigration to the New World began. It is this mass migration which created the world we live in today and Columbus did make the discovery which started it. One professor told me that Columbus was not the first to discover America he was just the first to discover it and then hold a press conference.

[Dirk]

Originally Posted by deanhills

People seem to forget anyway. We may remember as far back as World War II but World War I is beginning to get foggy around the edges. We seem to have time against us, given that our life expectancy is generally less than a century.

This is why we learn history.

And to be fair, it doesn't really warrant a smiley face. If we forget the imperialist atrocities of the first world war, it is cause for frustration and depression. Only that won't occur because no-one will remember what they've forgotten.

As for discovering the United States, originally, i'd say, speaking in human terms, the Asians that travelled across the Bering Strait and became what is known as the Native American People, thousands of years before Columbus. That would be the earliest I can think of at the moment.

[deanhills]

Originally Posted by Dirk

This is why we learn history.

And to be fair, it doesn't really warrant a smiley face.

Come off it Dirk. The smiley face was about our memories being short, not the content of our history. Quite a large percentage of school children will tell you that they really don't like history anyway. I actually do. I however don't only see it as being miserable. I see it as fitness to survive, sometimes up and sometimes down.

[Harrison Bergeron]

The first Europeans in America were Irish monks.http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-89388009.html

[deanhills]

Originally Posted by Harrison Bergeron

The first Europeans in America were Irish monks.http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-89388009.html

You have to be Irish I don't believe we really know for sure. There are a number of theories, but in absence of real media reporting at that time, they are just theories to me.

[David]

Originally Posted by Harrison Bergeron

The first Europeans in America were Irish monks.http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-89388009.html

Mind a link that doesn't require me to pay to read the article?

[Dirk]

Originally Posted by deanhills

Come off it Dirk. The smiley face was about our memories being short, not the content of our history.

Okay.

Quite a large percentage of school children will tell you that they really don't like history anyway.

That is very sad.

I actually do. I however don't only see it as being miserable. I see it as fitness to survive, sometimes up and sometimes down.

No. History is made up mostly of things to be ashamed of. That's not referring only to me as a German, but it can refer to the imperialist wars in Africa for Britain, or for the acts of genocide by the US against the Native populace.

[deanhills]

Originally Posted by Dirk

That is very sad.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Dirk

No. History is made up mostly of things to be ashamed of. That's not referring only to me as a German, but it can refer to the imperialist wars in Africa for Britain, or for the acts of genocide by the US against the Native populace.

There is a large list of things to be ashamed off, but there are also major accomplishments. The computer being one of them and allowing you and I to participate in a forum.

[Dirk]

Originally Posted by deanhills

Agreed.

There is a large list of things to be ashamed off, but there are also major accomplishments. The computer being one of them and allowing you and I to participate in a forum.

Mm, most technological development i'd see as positive.