Hillary's Testimony Emotional.

Brooks · Feb 18, 2013

According to Panetta's testimony, the president was aware of what was going on. Just before he left for Las Vegas he told Panetta to do whatever it takes to save lives. This greatly diminished the chances of those Americans' survival.

There are things a president can do in a situation that his subordinates are just not in a position to authorize and President Obama knows this. So despite giving Panetta a supposed carte blanche, before leaving for Vegas, He knew Panetta was NOT in a position to do whatever he deemed necessary to save lives.

But after the fact the do-whatever-it-takes sounds like the president left the situation in good hands. In reality though, those hands were tied. And he knew it.

tecoyah · Feb 18, 2013

Brooks said:
According to Panetta's testimony, the president was aware of what was going on. Just before he left for Las Vegas he told Panetta to do whatever it takes to save lives. This greatly diminished the chances of those Americans' survival.

There are things a president can do in a situation that his subordinates are just not in a position to authorize and President Obama knows this. So despite giving Panetta a supposed carte blanche, before leaving for Vegas, He knew Panetta was NOT in a position to do whatever he deemed necessary to save lives.

But after the fact the do-whatever-it-takes sounds like the president left the situation in good hands. In reality though, those hands were tied. And he knew it.

I would be curious to know what you believe could have been done?

Prefferably something beyond the earlier impossible military option stated in this thread.

Stonewall · Feb 18, 2013

Curiosity on what could have been done certainly not as relevant as what was done...or wasn't done. Firstly, after the British had pulled stakes, we left our diplomats in harms way even though the Ambassador himself was sending alarms. And afterwards we blamed this all on a movie protest gone awry.

Then some of us citizens shamefully defended the President.

tecoyah · Feb 18, 2013

Stonewall said:
Curiosity on what could have been done certainly not as relevant as what was done...or wasn't done. Firstly, after the British had pulled stakes, we left our diplomats in harms way even though the Ambassador himself was sending alarms. And afterwards we blamed this all on a movie protest gone awry.

Then some of us citizens shamefully defended the President.

Feel Better Now?

Stonewall · Feb 18, 2013

tecoyah said:
Feel Better Now?

I'd feel much better should there not be so many to hook, line, and sinker swallow this nonsense about a movie protest gone awry. Sadly, there are many sheep who merely flock with their herder.

tecoyah · Feb 18, 2013

Stonewall said:
I'd feel much better should there not be so many to hook, line, and sinker swallow this nonsense about a movie protest gone awry. Sadly, there are many sheep who merely flock with their herder.

Then you should rest easy in the understanding that very few think the primary reason for this incident involves the video. That it is well understood the attack and resulting death was a well coordinated assault likely pre-planned and carried out by forces intent on causing something akin to what they accomplished, and that this is pretty much exactly what has been expressed since the investigation began.

I know of no one who currently takes seriously the theory you seem to find so important, as it has been proven incorrect for some time. Granted, until such data was available invalid assumptions (Mistakes) were portrayed by the government on talk shows based on the incorrect and limited intelligence gathered at the time. I find fault in this and blame all involved, from the President, SOS, the CIA, and many others...yet I also try to understand the complicated reality they all were faced with.

Rather than flail around in a biased and thus tainted pretense of knowledge I simply cannot possibly have, resorting to a foamed spittle ridden hatred of my President....I have chosen to read what I can, and attempt to understand what happened, where we are now, and how we might improve.

Silly Me.

Stonewall · Feb 18, 2013

tecoyah said:
Then you should rest easy in the understanding that very few think the primary reason for this incident involves the video.

No resting easy when those amongst the "very few" include the Secretary of State, the UN Ambassador, and the President.

That it is well understood the attack and resulting death was a well coordinated assault likely pre-planned and carried out by forces intent on causing something akin to what they accomplished, and that this is pretty much exactly what has been expressed since the investigation began.

Obama took off for a campaign stop the next morning. Susan Rice went on all the national TV news to tell us otherwise. The man responsible for coordinating these attacks is free and in Tunis according to Brennan. Of course this was a coordinated pre-planned attack......what are we doing about it? Was it even an issue for Obama during the election because it seems not to have been? Yes, they accomplished what they set out to do....what are WE doing about it??

I know of no one who currently takes seriously the theory you seem to find so important, as it has been proven incorrect for some time. Granted, until such data was available invalid assumptions (Mistakes) were portrayed by the government on talk shows based on the incorrect and limited intelligence gathered at the time. I find fault in this and blame all involved, from the President, SOS, the CIA, and many others...yet I also try to understand the complicated reality they all were faced with.

Susan Rice was lying and so was the Secretary of State, the President was trying to limit the amount of damage to his election hopes. He shouldn't have worried at all, the electorate..like you...accepted any excuse he gave.

Rather than flail around in a biased and thus tainted pretense of knowledge I simply cannot possibly have, resorting to a foamed spittle ridden hatred of my President....I have chosen to read what I can, and attempt to understand what happened, where we are now, and how we might improve.

You simply cannot possibly have? Not like the Bin Laden raid that you know every detail about, huh?

Oops.

Silly Me.

No argument here

tecoyah · Feb 18, 2013

~Fin.......

misterveritis · Feb 18, 2013

tecoyah said:
This to me is a large part of the failure in communication we find in this country. By pointing out the obvious error you have made in a comment...I have become a shameful supporter of something you obviously do not like, and am thus placed in some arbitrary box of the bad.
I would point out my political leaning, (which is certainly not as simple as you choose to paint it), but experience tells me the effort to defend my positions would be entirely wasted and really makes little difference regardless, as the mindset portrayed pushes your opinions into irrelevance.

This debate site is intended to avoid the typical ignorant bias found in hundreds of others, if possible, I ask that you help us reach that goal.

Given how wrong you are how do you propose to lead the rest of us to "Truth?"

This interchange is a glaring example of how difficult the task is. You may not have the corner on the typical ignorant bias but you have well more than your fair share.

tecoyah · Feb 18, 2013

misterveritis said:
Given how wrong you are how do you propose to lead the rest of us to "Truth?"

This interchange is a glaring example of how difficult the task is. You may not have the corner on the typical ignorant bias but you have well more than your fair share.

I freely admit my ignorance as I am not privy to the information that might relieve it. I simply do not feel inclined to extrapolate on my ignorance with bias. What I have been able to gather and verify, leads me to the understanding that what was done to prevent this was inadequate (Obviously), that there were steps that may have done so, and that these steps were not taken.
In hindsight it is likely more would have been done, but as is true with pretty much everything after the fact...mistakes can be found, harped on, and corrected. I suppose my issue has more to do with where the "Harping" is directed than that it is happening, as it is how we learn.
Obama, Rice, and Clinton may be accountable, yet they are not responsible. That some decide to ignore this in order to claim some level of revenge is disappointing.

misterveritis · Feb 18, 2013

tecoyah said:
I freely admit my ignorance as I am not privy to the information that might relieve it. I simply do not feel inclined to extrapolate on my ignorance with bias. What I have been able to gather and verify, leads me to the understanding that what was done to prevent this was inadequate (Obviously), that there were steps that may have done so, and that these steps were not taken.
In hindsight it is likely more would have been done, but as is true with pretty much everything after the fact...mistakes can be found, harped on, and corrected. I suppose my issue has more to do with where the "Harping" is directed than that it is happening, as it is how we learn.
Obama, Rice, and Clinton may be accountable, yet they are not responsible. That some decide to ignore this in order to claim some level of revenge is disappointing.

What an impressive string of soft and squishy words.

People died and Obama lied. As did Clinton and Rice. It was not a video. It was never a video. It was an Al Qaeda attack. They knew it. And they lied.

You should not cover for them. It is morally reprehensible.

tecoyah · Feb 18, 2013

misterveritis said:
What an impressive string of soft and squishy words.

People died and Obama lied. As did Clinton and Rice. It was not a video. It was never a video. It was an Al Qaeda attack. They knew it. And they lied.

You should not cover for them. It is morally reprehensible.

~Fin.......as well

Stonewall · Feb 19, 2013

tecoyah said:
I freely admit my ignorance as I am not privy to the information that might relieve it. I simply do not feel inclined to extrapolate on my ignorance with bias. What I have been able to gather and verify, leads me to the understanding that what was done to prevent this was inadequate (Obviously), that there were steps that may have done so, and that these steps were not taken.
In hindsight it is likely more would have been done, but as is true with pretty much everything after the fact...mistakes can be found, harped on, and corrected. I suppose my issue has more to do with where the "Harping" is directed than that it is happening, as it is how we learn.
Obama, Rice, and Clinton may be accountable, yet they are not responsible. That some decide to ignore this in order to claim some level of revenge is disappointing.

Uhhh...yeah.

Nice circular.

Protectionist · May 5, 2013

David said:
Actually the local CIA unit (and pro-West militias) was in the field fighting their way to the consulate. It's not that help wasn't sent but rather the enemy was able to hold them off. For some strang reason people keep forgetting we never invaded Libya, we didn't have an army that could rescue them.

Funny how you come up with stuff nobody's ever heard of. I'm not ruling out what you say (for now), but I am asking you for a source for your information. Do you have one, or are we supposed to take this on faith ?

Also, is asking for help well before the attack (and being refused, with security CUT) not to be part of this discussion ? If the Consulate was properly manned and defended in the first place, the Islamist loons would not not been able to do what they did.

Protectionist · May 5, 2013

Brooks said:
According to Panetta's testimony, the president was aware of what was going on. Just before he left for Las Vegas he told Panetta to do whatever it takes to save lives. This greatly diminished the chances of those Americans' survival.

There are things a president can do in a situation that his subordinates are just not in a position to authorize and President Obama knows this. So despite giving Panetta a supposed carte blanche, before leaving for Vegas, He knew Panetta was NOT in a position to do whatever he deemed necessary to save lives.

But after the fact the do-whatever-it-takes sounds like the president left the situation in good hands. In reality though, those hands were tied. And he knew it.

The ounce of prevention (worth a pound of cure) was ignored. Actually it was worse. The ounce was lessened to a half ounce (security was cut back)

Protectionist · May 5, 2013

tecoyah said:
I would be curious to know what you believe could have been done?

Prefferably something beyond the earlier impossible military option stated in this thread.

Two things that could/should havfe been done are:

1. Christopher Stevens' requests for more (and adequate) security could have been met (instead of cutting the security)

2. The ringleaders of this attack could have been caught and brought to justice last summer. This is what Hillary Clinton (when she testified) said was her focus. She said it was less important to find out why these militants did what they did than to find them and bring them to justice. But weren't they already found ? There are pictures of 3 terrorist leaders of the raid we're seeing now. Bu the Obama people have had these since last summer, correct ? So, they have been allowed to roam around free for 8 months. No catching. No bringing to justice. (?????????????)

tecoyah · May 6, 2013

Protectionist said:
Two things that could/should havfe been done are:

1. Christopher Stevens' requests for more (and adequate) security could have been met (instead of cutting the security)

2. The ringleaders of this attack could have been caught and brought to justice last summer. This is what Hillary Clinton (when she testified) said was her focus. She said it was less important to find out why these militants did what they did than to find them and bring them to justice. But weren't they already found ? There are pictures of 3 terrorist leaders of the raid we're seeing now. Bu the Obama people have had these since last summer, correct ? So, they have been allowed to roam around free for 8 months. No catching. No bringing to justice. (?????????????)

I agree.....these things not only could have, but should have been done.
I would think those who actually are charged with these functions are/were significantly more aware of the details that would allow them to happen than I am...and rather than assign blame for what was not done prefer to focus on preventing such a mess from occurring again.
Hillary, as SOS is accountable for the obvious failures but I do not see her as responsible. There are many that carry responsibility from the perpetrators, the militia meant to protect, the infant government in Lybia, the entire state department, the President, and the guy who took the request for more security.
Though I do not particularly like Hillary, she has earned my respect and it may be I understand the complexity of this situation goes a bit beyond the partisan blame game.

Protectionist · May 7, 2013

tecoyah said:
I agree.....these things not only could have, but should have been done.
I would think those who actually are charged with these functions are/were significantly more aware of the details that would allow them to happen than I am...and rather than assign blame for what was not done prefer to focus on preventing such a mess from occurring again.
Hillary, as SOS is accountable for the obvious failures but I do not see her as responsible. There are many that carry responsibility from the perpetrators, the militia meant to protect, the infant government in Lybia, the entire state department, the President, and the guy who took the request for more security.
Though I do not particularly like Hillary, she has earned my respect and it may be I understand the complexity of this situation goes a bit beyond the partisan blame game.

She has accepted responsibility (ie. blame) herself, publicly. I agree with here on that.

tecoyah · May 12, 2013

something to consider

One is left to wonder why this has become such a powerful issue this time:

DodgeFB · May 12, 2013

tecoyah said:
One is left to wonder why this has become such a powerful issue this time:

It usually gets made worse by attempts to "coverup". People have even been sent to prison for trying to cover crimes that they were never convicted of. Such as Martha Stewart.

Hillary's Testimony Emotional.

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